Showing posts with label berachot. Show all posts
Showing posts with label berachot. Show all posts

Thursday, October 4, 2012

Berachot 64a: Fate and Rabbinic leadership

Berachot 64a:
R. Abin the Levite said: Whoever tries to force his [good] fortune will be dogged by [ill] fortune,4  and whoever forgoes his [good] fortune will postpone his [ill] fortune.5  This we can illustrate from the case of Rabbah and R. Joseph. For R. Joseph was 'Sinai'6  and Rabbah was 'an uprooter of mountains'.7  The time came when they were required [to be head of the Academy].8  They [the collegiates] sent there [to Palestine] to ask, As between 'Sinai' and an 'uprooter of mountains', which should have the preference? They sent answer: Sinai, because all require the owner of wheat.9  Nevertheless, R. Joseph would not accept the post, because the astrologers had told him that he would be head for only two years. Rabbah thereupon remained head for twenty-two years, and R. Joseph after him for two years and a half.10  During all the time that Rabbah was head, R. Joseph did not so much as summon a cupper to come to his house.11
According to Rashi, this was that Rav Yosef never assumed any airs of office, and so he did not even summon the cupper, meaning the bloodletter, but rather went to him like an ordinary person. And so follow Soncino, Artscroll, Shteinsaltz.

Nobody even suggests the obvious alternative, which upsets me a bit.

Realize that Rav Yosef was told this by astrologers. He delayed this good fortune, and in this way delayed his ill fortune. He knew he would only be head of the yeshiva for two years. If he had assumed office immediately, then he would only be fated to have two years of life; or two years before having to step down from his position. However, now that he was assured of his position, he knew that he would live so long as Rabba was in office.

Therefore, so long as Rabba was in office, Rav Yosef did not need to fear for his health.

A blood-letter is summoned for health purposes.

But Rav Yosef had no need to summon the blood-letter, because he was confident in his health. Thus, this is not a lack of serara in summoning, but a confidence in his fate.

Wednesday, October 3, 2012

Berachot 63: Must we follow the pesak of Gedolim in Eretz Yisrael?

Here is an interesting parallel to the events of Chanania intercalating the year in Chutz LaAretz, in Yerushalmi Nedarim.

On Berachot 63a-b, we had the following:
R. Safra said: R. Abbahu used to relate that when Hananiah the son of R. Joshua's brother went down to the Diaspora,38  he began to intercalate the years and fix new moons outside Palestine. So they [the Beth din] sent after him two scholars, R. Jose b. Kippar and the grandson of R. Zechariah b. Kebutal. When he saw them, he said to them: Why have you come? — They replied: We have come to learn Torah [from you]. He thereupon proclaimed: These men are among the most eminent of the generation. They and their ancestors have ministered in the Sanctuary (as we have learnt: Zechariah b. Kebutal said: Several times I read to him39  out of the book of Daniel). Soon they began to declare clean what he declared unclean and to permit what he forbade. Thereupon he proclaimed: These men are worthless, they are good for nothing. They said to him: You have already built and you cannot overthrow, you have made a fence and you cannot break it down.40  He said to them: Why do you declare clean when I declare unclean, why do you permit when I forbid? — They replied: Because you intercalate years and fix new moons outside of Palestine. He said to them: Did not Akiba son of Joseph intercalate years and fix new moons outside of Palestine?41  — They replied: Don't cite R. Akiba, who left not his equal in the Land of Israel. He said to them: I also left not my equal in the Land of Israel. They said to him: The kids which you left behind have become goats with horns, and they have sent us to you, bidding us, 'Go and tell him in our name. If he listens, well and good; if not, he will be excommunicated. Tell also our brethren in the Diaspora [not to listen to him]. If they listen to you, well and good; if not, let them go up to the mountain, let Ahia1  build an altar and let Hananiah play the harp,2  and let them all become renegades and say that they have no portion in the God of Israel'. Straightway all the people broke out into weeping and cried, Heaven forbid, we have a portion in the God of Israel. Why all this to-do? — Because it says, For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.3  We can understand that if he declared clean they should declare unclean, because this would be more stringent. But how was it possible that they should declare clean what he declared unclean, seeing that it has been taught: If a Sage has declared unclean, his colleague is not permitted to declare clean? — They thought proper to act thus so that the people should not be drawn after him.
The parallel in Yerushalmi Nedarim 23a-b reads as follows. I'll pull it from the excellent Yedid Nefesh Yerushalmi, which is like a Hebrew Artscroll for Yerushalmi, where the work is already complete. (Artscroll in the sense of running translation and halacha at the bottom, but not with Artscroll's footnotes.)
http://kodesh.snunit.k12.il/b/r/r3306_023a.htm
 "We do not intercalate the year except in Judea, and if they intercalated it in Galilee it is intercalated. Rabbi Chanania man of Ono testified that if they are unable to intercalate the year in Judea, they intercalate it in Galilee. They do not intercalate the year in Chutz LaAretz and if they intercalate it, it is not intercalated. [This is all] where they are able to intercalate it in Eretz Yisrael, but if they are unable to intercalate it in Eretz Yisrael, then they do intercalate it in Chutz LaAretz.

Yirmeyahu [haNavi] intercalated in Chutz LaAretz. Yechezkel [haNavi] intercalated in Chutz LaAretz. Baruch [ben Neriah, Yirmeyahu's scribe] intercalated in Chutz LaAretz.

Chanania the son of the brother of Rabbi Yehoshua [ben Chanania] intercalated in Chutz LaAretz. Rabbi sent him three letters via Rabbi Yitzchak and Rabbi Natan. In one of them he wrote, 'to the holiness of Chananiah'. And in one of them he wrote, 'The kids which you left behind have become goats with horns.' And in one of them he wrote, 'if you do not accept upon yourself [the times set in Eretz Yisrael] go out to the wilderness of thornbushes, and slaughter there, and Nechunyon will sprinkle [the blood of the korban].'

By the first letter, he honored them. [See parallel Bavli.] By the second letter, he honored them. By the third letter, he wished to shame them. They said to him, 'you are unable, for you already honored us'.

Rabbi Yitzchak [the agent] arose and read [perhaps in a derasha]: It is stated in the Torah, "Eleh Moadei Chanania son of the brother of Rabbi Yehoshua". They [the tzibbur] said to him [correcting him]: By us [is written] Moadei Hashem! He said to them, [only] by us [but not by you]!

Rabbi Natan [the other agent] arose and finished: Ki MiBavel Teitzei Torah Udvar HaShem MiNehar Pekod. They said to him: Ki miTzion Teitzei Torah Udvar Hashem miyrushalayim! He said to them: By us!

He [Chanania] went to Rabbi Yehuda ben Beteira in Netzivin [to complain]. He [R' Yehuda ben Beteira] said to him: After them, after them. He said to him: Don't you know what I left there [in terms of the low caliber of Talmidei Chachamim there]? Who will tell me that they are Chachamim who can calculate as well as me? [R' Yehuda ben Beteira answered]: Since you say that they do not know how to calculate as well as you, they should listen to you? Rather, since they say that they are Chachamim [alternatively, knowledgeable to] calculate like you, you should listen to them! He [R' Yehuda ben Beteira] arose and rode on his horse. To the places he reached, he reached [and they followed his advice]. To the places he did not reach, they acted inappropriately.

It is written [in Yirmeya 29:1]:
א  וְאֵלֶּה דִּבְרֵי הַסֵּפֶר, אֲשֶׁר שָׁלַח יִרְמְיָה הַנָּבִיא מִירוּשָׁלִָם--אֶל-יֶתֶר זִקְנֵי הַגּוֹלָה, וְאֶל-הַכֹּהֲנִים וְאֶל-הַנְּבִיאִים וְאֶל-כָּל-הָעָם, אֲשֶׁר הֶגְלָה נְבוּכַדְנֶאצַּר מִירוּשָׁלִַם, בָּבֶלָה.1 Now these are the words of the letter that Jeremiah the prophet sent from Jerusalem unto the residue of the elders of the captivity, and to the priests, and to the prophets, and to all the people, whom Nebuchadnezzar had carried away captive from Jerusalem to Babylon,


Hashem said: More [yeter] are they dear to me, the zekeinim of the Diaspora; yey the smallest kat [set] in Eretz Yisrael are dearer to me than the Sanhedrin outside the land.

But it is written [II Melachim 24]:
טז  וְאֵת כָּל-אַנְשֵׁי הַחַיִל שִׁבְעַת אֲלָפִים, וְהֶחָרָשׁ וְהַמַּסְגֵּר אֶלֶף--הַכֹּל, גִּבּוֹרִים עֹשֵׂי מִלְחָמָה; וַיְבִיאֵם מֶלֶךְ-בָּבֶל גּוֹלָה, בָּבֶלָה.16 And all the men of might, even seven thousand, and the craftsmen and the smiths a thousand, all of them strong and apt for war, even them the king of Babylon brought captive to Babylon.

[which is darshened in praise of Talmidei Chachamim of the Diaspora, who silence all others in their Torah wisdom] and you say this?!

Rabbi Berechia citing Rabbi Chelbo, and the Sages [each resolved this].  Rabbi Chelbo said: The charash were a thousand and the masger were a thousand; and the Sages said: in their entirety they were a thousand.

Rabbi Berechia citing Rabbi Chelbo said: These were the Chaveirim [Sages]. And the Sages said: These were the important officials."

End translation of the Yerushalmi.

What is this business of setting up one's own altar, which features in both Bavli and Yerushalmi. See sefer Yehoshua, perek 22, where Bnei Gad, Bnei Reuven, and half of Shevet Menashe, built their own altar there. It was as close to 'outside the land' as they had at the time, and it seemed like they were going to go it alone and sever their connection from the rest of Klal Yisrael. I will reproduce it here:
י  וַיָּבֹאוּ אֶל-גְּלִילוֹת הַיַּרְדֵּן, אֲשֶׁר בְּאֶרֶץ כְּנָעַן; וַיִּבְנוּ בְנֵי-רְאוּבֵן וּבְנֵי-גָד וַחֲצִי שֵׁבֶט הַמְנַשֶּׁה שָׁם מִזְבֵּחַ, עַל-הַיַּרְדֵּן--מִזְבֵּחַ גָּדוֹל, לְמַרְאֶה.10 And when they came unto the region about the Jordan, that is in the land of Canaan, the children of Reuben and the children of Gad and the half-tribe of Manasseh built there an altar by the Jordan, a great altar to look upon.
יא  וַיִּשְׁמְעוּ בְנֵי-יִשְׂרָאֵל, לֵאמֹר:  הִנֵּה בָנוּ בְנֵי-רְאוּבֵן וּבְנֵי-גָד וַחֲצִי שֵׁבֶט הַמְנַשֶּׁה אֶת-הַמִּזְבֵּחַ, אֶל-מוּל אֶרֶץ כְּנַעַן--אֶל-גְּלִילוֹת הַיַּרְדֵּן, אֶל-עֵבֶר בְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל.11 And the children of Israel heard say: 'Behold, the children of Reuben and the children of Gad and the half-tribe of Manasseh have built an altar in the forefront of the land of Canaan, in the region about the Jordan, on the side that pertaineth to the children of Israel.'
יב  וַיִּשְׁמְעוּ, בְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל; וַיִּקָּהֲלוּ כָּל-עֲדַת בְּנֵי-יִשְׂרָאֵל, שִׁלֹה, לַעֲלוֹת עֲלֵיהֶם, לַצָּבָא.  {פ}12 And when the children of Israel heard of it, the whole congregation of the children of Israel gathered themselves together at Shiloh, to go up against them to war. {P}
יג  וַיִּשְׁלְחוּ בְנֵי-יִשְׂרָאֵל אֶל-בְּנֵי-רְאוּבֵן וְאֶל-בְּנֵי-גָד, וְאֶל-חֲצִי שֵׁבֶט-מְנַשֶּׁה--אֶל-אֶרֶץ הַגִּלְעָד:  אֶת-פִּינְחָס, בֶּן-אֶלְעָזָר הַכֹּהֵן.13 And the children of Israel sent unto the children of Reuben, and to the children of Gad, and to the half-tribe of Manasseh, into the land of Gilead, Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest;
יד  וַעֲשָׂרָה נְשִׂאִים, עִמּוֹ--נָשִׂיא אֶחָד נָשִׂיא אֶחָד לְבֵית אָב, לְכֹל מַטּוֹת יִשְׂרָאֵל; וְאִישׁ רֹאשׁ בֵּית-אֲבוֹתָם הֵמָּה, לְאַלְפֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל.14 and with him ten princes, one prince of a fathers' house for each of the tribes of Israel; and they were every one of them head of their fathers' houses among the thousands of Israel.
טו  וַיָּבֹאוּ אֶל-בְּנֵי-רְאוּבֵן וְאֶל-בְּנֵי-גָד, וְאֶל-חֲצִי שֵׁבֶט-מְנַשֶּׁה--אֶל-אֶרֶץ הַגִּלְעָד; וַיְדַבְּרוּ אִתָּם, לֵאמֹר.15 And they came unto the children of Reuben, and to the children of Gad, and to the half-tribe of Manasseh, unto the land of Gilead, and they spoke with them, saying:
טז  כֹּה אָמְרוּ כֹּל עֲדַת יְהוָה, מָה-הַמַּעַל הַזֶּה אֲשֶׁר מְעַלְתֶּם בֵּאלֹהֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל, לָשׁוּב הַיּוֹם, מֵאַחֲרֵי יְהוָה--בִּבְנוֹתְכֶם לָכֶם מִזְבֵּחַ, לִמְרָדְכֶם הַיּוֹם בַּיהוָה.16 'Thus saith the whole congregation of the LORD: What treachery is this that ye have committed against the God of Israel, to turn away this day from following the LORD, in that ye have builded you an altar, to rebel this day against the LORD?
יז  הַמְעַט-לָנוּ, אֶת-עֲו‍ֹן פְּעוֹר, אֲשֶׁר לֹא-הִטַּהַרְנוּ מִמֶּנּוּ, עַד הַיּוֹם הַזֶּה; וַיְהִי הַנֶּגֶף, בַּעֲדַת יְהוָה.17 Is the iniquity of Peor too little for us, from which we have not cleansed ourselves unto this day, although there came a plague upon the congregation of the LORD,
יח  וְאַתֶּם תָּשֻׁבוּ הַיּוֹם, מֵאַחֲרֵי יְהוָה; וְהָיָה, אַתֶּם תִּמְרְדוּ הַיּוֹם בַּיהוָה, וּמָחָר, אֶל-כָּל-עֲדַת יִשְׂרָאֵל יִקְצֹף.18 that ye must turn away this day from following the LORD? and it will be, seeing ye rebel to-day against the LORD, that to-morrow He will be wroth with the whole congregation of Israel.
יט  וְאַךְ אִם-טְמֵאָה אֶרֶץ אֲחֻזַּתְכֶם, עִבְרוּ לָכֶם אֶל-אֶרֶץ אֲחֻזַּת יְהוָה אֲשֶׁר שָׁכַן-שָׁם מִשְׁכַּן יְהוָה, וְהֵאָחֲזוּ, בְּתוֹכֵנוּ; וּבַיהוָה אַל-תִּמְרֹדוּ, וְאֹתָנוּ אַל-תִּמְרֹדוּ, בִּבְנֹתְכֶם לָכֶם מִזְבֵּחַ, מִבַּלְעֲדֵי מִזְבַּח יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ.19 Howbeit, if the land of your possession be unclean, then pass ye over unto the land of the possession of the LORD, wherein the LORD'S tabernacle dwelleth, and take possession among us; but rebel not against the LORD, nor rebel against us, in building you an altar besides the altar of the LORD our God.
כ  הֲלוֹא עָכָן בֶּן-זֶרַח, מָעַל מַעַל בַּחֵרֶם, וְעַל-כָּל-עֲדַת יִשְׂרָאֵל, הָיָה קָצֶף:  וְהוּא אִישׁ אֶחָד, לֹא גָוַע בַּעֲו‍ֹנוֹ.  {ס}20 Did not Achan the son of Zerah commit a trespass concerning the devoted thing, and wrath fell upon all the congregation of Israel? and that man perished not alone in his iniquity.' {S}
כא  וַיַּעֲנוּ בְּנֵי-רְאוּבֵן וּבְנֵי-גָד, וַחֲצִי שֵׁבֶט הַמְנַשֶּׁה; וַיְדַבְּרוּ, אֶת-רָאשֵׁי אַלְפֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל.21 Then the children of Reuben and the children of Gad and the half-tribe of Manasseh answered, and spoke unto the heads of the thousands of Israel:
כב  אֵל אֱלֹהִים יְהוָה אֵל אֱלֹהִים יְהוָה, הוּא יֹדֵעַ, וְיִשְׂרָאֵל, הוּא יֵדָע:  אִם-בְּמֶרֶד וְאִם-בְּמַעַל בַּיהוָה, אַל-תּוֹשִׁיעֵנוּ הַיּוֹם הַזֶּה.22 'God, God, the LORD, God, God, the LORD, He knoweth, and Israel he shall know; if it be in rebellion, or if in treachery against the LORD--save Thou us not this day--
כג  לִבְנוֹת לָנוּ מִזְבֵּחַ, לָשׁוּב מֵאַחֲרֵי יְהוָה; וְאִם-לְהַעֲלוֹת עָלָיו עוֹלָה וּמִנְחָה, וְאִם-לַעֲשׂוֹת עָלָיו זִבְחֵי שְׁלָמִים--יְהוָה, הוּא יְבַקֵּשׁ.23 that we have built us an altar to turn away from following the LORD; or if to offer thereon burnt-offering or meal-offering, or if to offer sacrifices of peace-offerings thereon, let the LORD Himself require it;
כד  וְאִם-לֹא מִדְּאָגָה מִדָּבָר, עָשִׂינוּ אֶת-זֹאת לֵאמֹר:  מָחָר, יֹאמְרוּ בְנֵיכֶם לְבָנֵינוּ לֵאמֹר, מַה-לָּכֶם, וְלַיהוָה אֱלֹהֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל.24 and if we have not rather out of anxiety about a matter done this, saying: In time to come your children might speak unto our children, saying: What have ye to do with the LORD, the God of Israel?
כה  וּגְבוּל נָתַן-יְהוָה בֵּינֵנוּ וּבֵינֵיכֶם בְּנֵי-רְאוּבֵן וּבְנֵי-גָד, אֶת-הַיַּרְדֵּן--אֵין-לָכֶם חֵלֶק, בַּיהוָה; וְהִשְׁבִּיתוּ בְנֵיכֶם אֶת-בָּנֵינוּ, לְבִלְתִּי יְרֹא אֶת-יְהוָה.25 for the LORD hath made the Jordan a border between us and you, ye children of Reuben and children of Gad; ye have no portion in the LORD; so might your children make our children cease from fearing the LORD.
כו  וַנֹּאמֶר--נַעֲשֶׂה-נָּא לָנוּ, לִבְנוֹת אֶת-הַמִּזְבֵּחַ:  לֹא לְעוֹלָה, וְלֹא לְזָבַח.26 Therefore we said: Let us now prepare to build us an altar, not for burnt-offering, nor for sacrifice;
כז  כִּי עֵד הוּא בֵּינֵינוּ וּבֵינֵיכֶם, וּבֵין דֹּרוֹתֵינוּ אַחֲרֵינוּ, לַעֲבֹד אֶת-עֲבֹדַת יְהוָה לְפָנָיו, בְּעֹלוֹתֵינוּ וּבִזְבָחֵינוּ וּבִשְׁלָמֵינוּ:  וְלֹא-יֹאמְרוּ בְנֵיכֶם מָחָר לְבָנֵינוּ, אֵין-לָכֶם חֵלֶק בַּיהוָה.27 but it shall be a witness between us and you, and between our generations after us, that we may do the service of the LORD before Him with our burnt-offerings, and with our sacrifices, and with our peace-offerings; that your children may not say to our children in time to come: Ye have no portion in the LORD.
כח  וַנֹּאמֶר--וְהָיָה כִּי-יֹאמְרוּ אֵלֵינוּ וְאֶל-דֹּרֹתֵינוּ, מָחָר; וְאָמַרְנוּ רְאוּ אֶת-תַּבְנִית מִזְבַּח יְהוָה אֲשֶׁר-עָשׂוּ אֲבוֹתֵינוּ, לֹא לְעוֹלָה וְלֹא לְזֶבַח--כִּי-עֵד הוּא, בֵּינֵינוּ וּבֵינֵיכֶם.28 Therefore said we: It shall be, when they so say to us or to our generations in time to come, that we shall say: Behold the pattern of the altar of the LORD, which our fathers made, not for burnt-offering, nor for sacrifice; but it is a witness between us and you.
כט  חָלִילָה לָּנוּ מִמֶּנּוּ לִמְרֹד בַּיהוָה, וְלָשׁוּב הַיּוֹם מֵאַחֲרֵי יְהוָה, לִבְנוֹת מִזְבֵּחַ, לְעֹלָה לְמִנְחָה וּלְזָבַח--מִלְּבַד, מִזְבַּח יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ, אֲשֶׁר, לִפְנֵי מִשְׁכָּנוֹ.  {פ}29 Far be it from us that we should rebel against the LORD, and turn away this day from following the LORD, to build an altar for burnt-offering, for meal-offering, or for sacrifice, besides the altar of the LORD our God that is before His tabernacle.' {P}
ל  וַיִּשְׁמַע פִּינְחָס הַכֹּהֵן, וּנְשִׂיאֵי הָעֵדָה וְרָאשֵׁי אַלְפֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל אֲשֶׁר אִתּוֹ, אֶת-הַדְּבָרִים, אֲשֶׁר דִּבְּרוּ בְּנֵי-רְאוּבֵן וּבְנֵי-גָד וּבְנֵי מְנַשֶּׁה; וַיִּיטַב, בְּעֵינֵיהֶם.30 And when Phinehas the priest, and the princes of the congregation, even the heads of the thousands of Israel that were with him, heard the words that the children of Reuben and the children of Gad and the children of Manasseh spoke, it pleased them well.
לא  וַיֹּאמֶר פִּינְחָס בֶּן-אֶלְעָזָר הַכֹּהֵן אֶל-בְּנֵי-רְאוּבֵן וְאֶל-בְּנֵי-גָד וְאֶל-בְּנֵי מְנַשֶּׁה, הַיּוֹם יָדַעְנוּ כִּי-בְתוֹכֵנוּ יְהוָה, אֲשֶׁר לֹא-מְעַלְתֶּם בַּיהוָה, הַמַּעַל הַזֶּה; אָז, הִצַּלְתֶּם אֶת-בְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל--מִיַּד יְהוָה.31 And Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest said unto the children of Reuben, and to the children of Gad, and to the children of Manasseh: 'This day we know that the LORD is in the midst of us, because ye have not committed this treachery against the LORD; now have ye delivered the children of Israel out of the hand of the LORD.'
לב  וַיָּשָׁב פִּינְחָס בֶּן-אֶלְעָזָר הַכֹּהֵן וְהַנְּשִׂיאִים מֵאֵת בְּנֵי-רְאוּבֵן וּמֵאֵת בְּנֵי-גָד מֵאֶרֶץ הַגִּלְעָד, אֶל-אֶרֶץ כְּנַעַן--אֶל-בְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל; וַיָּשִׁבוּ אוֹתָם, דָּבָר.32 And Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, and the princes, returned from the children of Reuben, and from the children of Gad, out of the land of Gilead, unto the land of Canaan, to the children of Israel, and brought them back word.
לג  וַיִּיטַב הַדָּבָר, בְּעֵינֵי בְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל, וַיְבָרְכוּ אֱלֹהִים, בְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל; וְלֹא אָמְרוּ, לַעֲלוֹת עֲלֵיהֶם לַצָּבָא, לְשַׁחֵת אֶת-הָאָרֶץ, אֲשֶׁר בְּנֵי-רְאוּבֵן וּבְנֵי-גָד יֹשְׁבִים בָּהּ.33 And the thing pleased the children of Israel; and the children of Israel blessed God, and spoke no more of going up against them to war, to destroy the land wherein the children of Reuben and the children of Gad dwelt.
לד  וַיִּקְרְאוּ בְּנֵי-רְאוּבֵן וּבְנֵי-גָד, לַמִּזְבֵּחַ:  כִּי עֵד הוּא בֵּינֹתֵינוּ, כִּי יְהוָה הָאֱלֹהִים.  {פ}34 And the children of Reuben and the children of Gad called the altar--: 'for it is a witness between us that the LORD is God.' {P}
This is why Bavli features the assertion that they should declare that they have no portion in the God of Israel. See pasuk 25 and 27.

I would add that there are some rabbis (and in fact, some people who have communicated with me privately by email) who make a similar assertion -- that in halacha, we must now all follow the "Gedolim" in Eretz Yisrael, because of the idea of Ki Mitzion Teitzei Torah. Here is an example.

Besides that I don't know that the Gedolim in Eretz Yisrael are as competent to pasken, especially in matters pertaining to metzius, which requires a knowledge of madda that many are unfortunately lacking, I don't know that this Bavli and Yerushalmi are discussing any more than setting the moadim, where a unity of religious calendar of when Yom Tov is at stake, and a fracturing will create two different communities that cannot interact. But differing piskei halacha have always been in place.

And further than that, we have the precedent of the Amoraim of Bavel and Eretz Yisrael. There were Sages in both places, and yet the Sages in Bavel quite often paskened against the shittot of the Sages in Eretz Yisrael.

Berachot 61-62: Rabbi Akiva forbids in every place

Depiction of
Akiva ben Joseph,
Mantua Haggadah (1568)
In Berachot 61b, this brayta:

תניא אידך הנפנה ביהודה לא יפנה מזרח ומערב אלא צפון ודרום ובגליל צפון ודרום אסור מזרח ומערב מותר ורבי יוסי מתיר שהיה רבי יוסי אומר לא אסרו אלא ברואה רבי יהודה אומר בזמן שבית המקדש קיים אסור בזמן שאין בית המקדש קיים מותר רבי עקיבא אוסר בכל מקום
In English:
It has been taught elsewhere: One who consults nature in Judea should not do so east and west but south and north, and in Galilee north and south is forbidden, east and west is permitted. R. Jose, however, permits it, since R. Jose used to say: This prohibition was meant to apply only to one who is in sight [of Jerusalem]. R. Judah says: When the Temple is in existence it is forbidden, when the Temple is not in existence it is permitted. R. Akiba forbids it in all places.
What is meant by the statement that רבי עקיבא אוסר בכל מקום? The word makom can refer to locations, in which case is should be understood as "in every physical location", thus referring to physical locations as in the reisha, about one who consults nature in Judea vs. in Galilee.

However, the phrase bechol makom can also simply mean "in every instance". I would suggest that this is precisely what it means, and so Rabbi Akiva's disputant is not anyone in the reisha, but rather Rabbi Yehuda in the seifa. Rabbi Yehuda had said that only when the Temple is in existence it is forbidden, and Rabbi Akiva argues and states that even after the Temple's destruction, it is forbidden.

Rabbi Yossi (ben Chalafta) was a fourth-generation Tanna, and a student of the third-generation Tanna Rabbi Akiva.

Rabbi Yehuda (bar Ilai) was also a fourth-generation Tanna, and a student of Rabbi Akiva.

Rabbi Akiva was a third-generation Tanna.

If we bind Rabbi Akiva to the closer sefa, then Rabbi Akiva is not in any danger of approximating the Tanna Kamma, in opposition to Rabbi Yossi. (Of course, bechol makom could refer to both time and place.)

Can we read this into subsequent gemaras?

The gemara continues:
רבי עקיבא היינו ת"ק איכא בינייהו חוץ לארץ
R. Akiba says the same as the First Tanna? — They differ in the matter of outside of Palestine.
We would need to part ways with the setama here, and say that Rabbi Akiva is entirely different from the Tanna Kamma.

Continuing:
רבה הוו שדיין ליה לבני מזרח ומערב אזל אביי שדנהו צפון ודרום על רבה תרצנהו אמר מאן האי דקמצער לי אנא כר' עקיבא סבירא לי דאמר בכל מקום אסור:
Rabbah had bricks placed for him east and west.28  Abaye went and changed them round to north and south. Rabbah went in and readjusted them. He said, Who is this that is annoying me? I take the view of R. Akiba, who said that it is forbidden in every place.
The idea is that Rabba would not want to face Eretz Yisrael. When Abaye tested the arrangement, there are three possibilities.

  1. There was an earlier brayta, with the Chachamim seemingly different from the Tanna Kamma:
    Our Rabbis taught: One who consults nature in Judea should not do so east and west25 but north and south. In Galilee he should do so only east and west.26 R. Jose, however, allows it, since R. Jose said: The prohibition was meant to apply only to one in sight of the Temple and in a place where there is no fence intervening and at the time when the Divine Presence rests there. The Sages, however, forbid it. The Sages say the same as the First Tanna? — They differ with regard to the sides.27
    Perhaps Rabba was not directly in line with the Temple, and so there would be no problem, as was stated by the setama degemara here.
  2. Since Rabba was outside Eretz Yisrael, perhaps he held like Rabbi Yossi.
  3. Since this was after the Churban, perhaps Rabba held like Rabbi Yehuda.
Continuing onto daf 62:
It has been taught: R. Akiba said: Once I went in after R. Joshua to a privy, and I learnt from him three things. I learnt that one does not sit east and west but north and south; I learnt that one evacuates not standing but sitting; and I learnt that it is proper to wipe with the left hand and not with the right. Said Ben Azzai to him: Did you dare to take such liberties with your master? He replied: It was a matter of Torah, and I required to learn. It has been taught: Ben 'Azzai said: Once I went in after R. Akiba to a privy, and I learnt from him three things. I learnt that one does not evacuate east and west but north and south. I also learnt that one evacuates sitting and not standing. I also learnt it is proper to wipe with the left hand and not with the right. Said R. Judah to him: Did you dare to take such liberties with your master? — He replied: It was a matter of Torah, and I required to learn.
Rabbi Yehoshua ben Chanania, Rabbi Akiva, and Ben Azzai were Tannaim operating in the aftermath of the destruction of the Temple.

Of course, this is all just speculation followed by exploration.

Sunday, September 30, 2012

Berachot 61: Counsel of the Kidneys; Common Descent

Regarding the counsel of the kidneys, see this parshablog post and this post at Rationalist Judaism. I think it was intended literally.

There is a gemara on daf 61 which suggests the idea of common descent:
Our Rabbis taught: Once the wicked Government14  issued a decree forbidding the Jews to study and practise the Torah. Pappus b. Judah came and found R. Akiba publicly bringing gatherings together and occupying himself with the Torah. He said to him: Akiba, are you not afraid of the Government? He replied: I will explain to you with a parable. A fox was once walking alongside of a river, and he saw fishes going in swarms from one place to another. He said to them: From what are you fleeing? They replied: From the nets cast for us by men. He said to them: Would you like to come up on to the dry land so that you and I can live together in the way that my ancestors lived with your ancestors? They replied...
and so on and so forth. Note the bolded portion. The fox says to the fish that his ancestors used to live with their ancestors. We could even say that they used to live together in the water, before the ancestors of the fox emerged from the ocean.

Or not. How would you interpret this?

Berachot 54: Miracles personal and non-existent

I forgot to publish this one in its proper time, so I'll put it up now. In terms of material for daf 60, I have tow parshablog posts. Regarding vain prayers, see what I wrote here. Regarding the prayer for bloodletting, see what I wrote here.

The Mishna (54a) stated:
הרואה מקום שנעשו בו נסים לישראל אומר ברוך שעשה נסים לאבותינו במקום הזה.
There appears to be a dispute between Bavli and Yerushalmi here as to whether an individual needs to bless for a miracle that happened to him in particular. Thus, in Bavli (54b):
GEMARA. Whence is this rule17  derived? — R. Johanan said: Because Scripture says, And Jethro said, Blessed be the Lord who hath delivered you, etc.18  And is a blessing said only for a miracle wrought for a large body, but not for one wrought for an individual? What of the case of the man Who was once travelling through Eber Yemina19  when a lion attacked him, but he was miraculously saved, and when he came before Raba he said to him, Whenever you pass that place say, Blessed be He who wrought for me a miracle in this place? There was the case, too, of Mar the son of Rabina who was once going through the valley of 'Araboth20  and was suffering from thirst and a well of water was miraculously created for him and he drank, and another time he was going through the manor of Mahoza21  when a wild camel attacked him and at that moment the wall of a house just by fell in and he escaped inside; and whenever thereafter he came to 'Araboth he used to say, Blessed be He who wrought for me miracles in 'Araboth and with the camel, and when he passed through the manor of Mahoza he used to say, Blessed be He who wrought for me miracles with the camel and in 'Araboth? — The answer [is that] for a miracle done to a large body it is the duty of everyone to say a blessing, for a miracle done to an individual he alone22  is required to say a blessing.
But in Yerushalmi (62a) we see that indeed, even an individual does not bless upon a miracle which happened to him personally:
מתני' בנסי ישראל אבל בנסי יחידי שנעשו לו אינו צריך לברך.
The brayta mentions the miracle of Og Melech HaBashan:
תנו רבנן הרואה מעברות הים ומעברות הירדן מעברות נחלי ארנון אבני אלגביש במורד בית חורון ואבן שבקש לזרוק עוג מלך הבשן על ישראל ואבן שישב עליה משה בשעה שעשה יהושע מלחמה בעמלק ואשתו של לוט וחומת יריחו שנבלעה במקומה על כולן צריך שיתן הודאה ושבח לפני המקום
Or, in English:
Our Rabbis taught: If one sees the place of the crossing of the Red Sea, or the fords of the Jordan, or the fords of the streams of Arnon, or hail stones [abne elgabish] in the descent of Beth Horon, or the stone which Og king of Bashan wanted to throw at Israel, or the stone on which Moses sat when Joshua fought with Amalek, or [the pillar of salt of] Lot's wife,23  or the wall of Jericho which sank into the ground,24  for all of these he should give thanksgiving and praise to the Almighty. 
And then, an elaboration of the nes involving Og:
'The stone which Og, king of Bashan wanted to throw at Israel'. This has been handed down by tradition. He said: How large is the camp of Israel? Three parasangs. I will go and uproot a mountain of the size of three parasangs and cast it upon them and kill them. He went and uprooted a mountain of the size of three parasangs and carried it on his head. But the Holy One, blessed be He, sent ants which bored a hole in it, so that it sank around his neck. He tried to pull it off, but his teeth projected on each side, and he could not pull it off. This is referred to in the text, Thou hast broken the teeth of the wicked,9  as explained by R Simeon b. Lakish. For R. Simeon b. Lakish said: What is the meaning of the text, Thou hast broken the teeth of the wicked? Do not read, shibbarta [Thou hast broken], but shirbabta [Thou hast lengthened]. The height of Moses was ten cubits.10  He took an axe ten cubits long, leapt ten cubits into the air, and struck him on his ankle and killed him.
Some Rishonim interpret this allegorically. But if all is allegorical, then why would the brayta establish a blessing upon seeing that stone?

What about Lot's wife?
'Lot's wife'. As it says, But his wife looked back from behind him and she became a pillar of salt.12
Some meforshim (such as Ralbag) understand that the pasuk,
וַתַּבֵּט אִשְׁתּוֹ, מֵאַחֲרָיו; וַתְּהִי, נְצִיב מֶלַח.
refers to seeing the city, rather than the wife, become a pillar of salt. What do they do with the Mishna? The answer is that they respectfully disagree with Chazal about the metzius, and so would say that that bracha would never come to be.

Saturday, September 29, 2012

Berachot 59a: Causes of earthquakes

Reposted from parshablog:

Did Homosexuality, Or Homosexual-Friendly Legislation, Cause the Recent Earthquakes?
I don't think so.

But a certain Shas MK is certain they did, if news reports are to be believed:

Benizri said the government should not make do with reinforcing buildings, but should instead pass less legislation that encourages homosexuality and other "perversions like adoptions by lesbian couples."

The ultra-Orthodox party MK invoked passages from the Talmud and the Gemarrah to support his claims. 
"Why do earthquakes happen?" said Benizri. "One of the reasons is the things to which the Knesset gives legitimacy, to sodomy."
This reflects a particular brand of Judaism, prevalent I think more among Sefardim, about schar veOnesh and claims to knowledge about what causes what.

It it funny that the article in HaAretz calls it passages from the Talmud and the Gemarrah. Firstly because Gemarrah is an atypical spelling, and calls to mind Sodom and Gomorrah. Secondly, it would appear that whoever wrote this was an ignoramus, who did not realize that "the Talmud" and "the Gemmarah" are one and the same. And this is who you have doing your religion reporting? (Perhaps it is a bad translation to English of a Hebrew article, where for some reason it made sense?)

I do not know whether this is an accurate portrayal of the remarks, but assuming it is, here is my reaction.

Firstly, if you want a prooftext that "
legislation that encourages homosexuality and other 'perversions like adoptions by lesbian couples.' " causes earthquakes, look lower down in the gemara. Look in Yerushalmi Berachot 9:2, where the gemara states:
ורבנן אמרו מפני המחלוקת. (זכריה יד) ונסתם גיא הרי כי יגיע גיא הרים אל אצל.
Thus, the Rabbanan rely on the prooftext from Zechariah which states:
ה וְנַסְתֶּם גֵּיא-הָרַי, כִּי-יַגִּיעַ גֵּי-הָרִים אֶל-אָצַל, וְנַסְתֶּם כַּאֲשֶׁר נַסְתֶּם מִפְּנֵי הָרַעַשׁ, בִּימֵי עֻזִּיָּה מֶלֶךְ-יְהוּדָה; וּבָא ה אֱלֹהַי, כָּל-קְדֹשִׁים עִמָּךְ.5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azel; yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah; and the LORD my God shall come, and all the holy ones with Thee.
If you want to say that gays being parents of adopted children causes earthquakes, say the following derasha: Al Tikrei "Gay Haray" ela "Gay Horay."

Enough joking.

Note that the quotation of the remarks in the article was that "One of the reasons is the things to which the Knesset gives legitimacy, to sodomy." Note that it starts "one of the reasons." That means that there are multiple reasons given. Even if we could apply this gemara to persent-day situations, does this MK have ruach hakodesh to know that this is the reason?

Let us examine the many reasons the gemara gives for earthquakes. First, in Bavli Berachot 59a. In English:

AND OVER EARTHQUAKES [ZEWA'OTH]. What are ZEWA'OTH? R. Kattina said: A rumbling of the earth. R. Kattina was once going along the road, and when he came to the door of the house of a certain necromancer, there was a rumbling of the earth. He said: Does the necromancer know what this rumbling is? He called after him, Kattina, Kattina, why should I not know? When the Holy One, blessed be He, calls to mind His children, who are plunged in suffering among the nations of the world, He lets fall two tears into the ocean, and the sound is heard from one end of the world to the other, and that is the rumbling. Said R. Kattina: The necromancer is a liar and his words are false. If it was as he says, there should be one rumbling after another! He did not really mean this, however. There really was one rumbling after another, and the reason why he did not admit it was so that people should not go astray after him. R. Kattina, for his own part, said: [God] clasps His hands, as it says: I will also smite my hands together, and I will satisfy my fury. {Ezek. XXI, 22.} R. Nathan said: [God] emits a sigh, as it is said: I will satisfy my fury upon them and I will be eased. {Ibid. V, 13} And the Rabbis said: He treads upon the firmament, as it says: He giveth a noise as they that tread grapes against all the inhabitants of the earth {Jer. XXV, 30}. R. Aha b. Jacob says: He presses his feet together beneath the throne of glory, as it says: Thus saith the Lord, the heaven is my throne and the earth is my foot-stool Isa. LXVI, 1}.
Thus, there are multiple reasons.

1) The reason of the necromancer, which may or may not be accurate for that particularearthquake. (My reading of the gemara was that the necromancer was correct as to the physical phenomenon, such that there was one rumbling after another, but entirely incorrect as to the cause.) Which is that Hashem is sad at the suffering of His children. Nothing to do with sodomy.
2) R' Katina: Something to do with God's anger over wrongdoing.
3) R' Natan: Similar.
4) The Rabbis: Not necessarily negative, but something to do with God's honor, perhaps.
5) Rav Acha bar Yaakov: Similar.

Nothing yet to do with homosexuality, so how is this MK so sure that it was not one of the aforementioned reasons?

Next up, we have the Yerushalmi Berachot 9:2:

אליהו ז"ל שאל לר' נהוריי מפני מה באין זועות לעולם אמר ליה בעון תרומה ומעשרות. כתוב אחד אומר (דברים יא) תמיד עיני ה' אלהיך בה וכתוב אחד (תהילים קד) המביט לארץ ותרעד יגע בהרים ויעשנו. הא כיצד יתקיימו שני כתובין הללו בשעה שישראל עושין רצונו של מקום ומוציאין מעשרותיהן כתיקונן תמיד עיני ה' אלהיך בה מראשית השנה ועד אחרית השנה ואינה ניזוקת כלום. בשעה שאין ישראל עושין רצונו של מקום ואינן מוציאין מעשרותיהן כתיקונן המביט לארץ ותרעד. אמר ליה בני חייך כך היא סברא דמילתא. אבל כך עיקרו של דבר אלא בשעה שהקב"ה מביט בבתי תיטריות ובבתי קרקסיות יושבות בטח ושאנן ושלוה ובית מקדשו חרב הוא אפילון לעולמו להחריבו. הה"ד (ירמיהו כה) שאוג ישאג על נוהו. בשביל נויהו. אמר ר' אחא בעון משכב זכר. אמר הקב"ה אתה זיעזעתה איברך על דבר שאינו שלך. חייך שאני מזעזע עולמי על אותו האיש. ורבנן אמרו מפני המחלוקת. (זכריה יד) ונסתם גיא הרי כי יגיע גיא הרים אל אצל. אמר רבי שמואל אין רעש אלא הפסק מלכות. כמה דאת אמר (ישעיהו יג) ותרעש הארץ ותחל. מפני מה (ישעיהו יג) כי קמה על בבל מחשבות ה.

The Yedid Nefesh translation / elaboration is to the right. Once again, we have multiple reasons:

1) Neglecting terumah and maaser.
2) Ignoring the churban habayit and attending theaters and circuses instead. (But theaters and circuses had different meaning back then, and the attention payed present-day churban habayis perhaps may not prompt this, given changed political and physical realities.
3) Sodomy.
4) Divisiveness!
5) The ending of a kingdom.

(Note, by the way, that despite Eliyahu haNavi offering an opinion and revealing the reality, this does not stop others from offering their own opinions as to the significance of earthquakes.)

So sodomy is featured there, but one opinion among many. How do we know to identify specifically this one, as opposed to any of the others? Or none of the above? Or natural causes?

Indeed, by making such a statement, in such a manner, he increases machloket, so perhaps heis the cause of the earthquakes!

Furthermore, all the Yerushalmi speaks of is the act of sodomy. But does gay-friendly legislation really encourage sodomy? Not directly -- people do not suddenly become gay because of friendly legislation. I could see the argument that it provides social support for long-term relationships, in which case people might engage in more homosexual acts. So there is some logic to the argument, based on the prooftext of the gemara.

But, once again, why rely specifically on this one opinion in the gemara and claim knowledge of the cause?

And more importantly, such statements are unproductive at best. It is, or comes across, as hatred. It increases machloket. And do you think they are going to listen to you, or will they dismiss you as a lunatic and religious freak?

On the other hand, we do see this well established practice of trying to find causes for natural phenomena such as this, in the time of Chazal, by examining the world about them as well asdarshening various pesukim.

Update: Meanwhile, people have lines that they think are good, but only because they haven't seen the sources inside. I refer to this:
Mike Hammel, chairman of the Israeli Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Association isn't having any of it. Hammel responded by saying:
"It is sad that a religious MK in Israel doesn't think earthquakes are God-made. On the other hand, I suppose we should be flattered he attributes us with such magical powers.
The Yerushalmi cited above explicitly says that it is God-made:
אמר ר' אחא בעון משכב זכר. אמר הקב"ה אתה זיעזעתה איברך על דבר שאינו שלך. חייך שאני מזעזע עולמי על אותו האיש.
as a Divine response to such activities.

But what can you do?

Friday, September 28, 2012

Berachot 58a: Censored texts

From today's daf:
R. Shesheth was blind. Once all the people went out to see the king, and R. Shesheth arose and went with them. A certain Sadducean11  came across him and said to him: The whole pitchers go to the river, but where do the broken ones go to?
and a bit later,
R. Shila administered lashes to a man who had intercourse with an Egyptian14  woman.
One or both of these might be censored by the Christians. According to this manuscript:


Firenze, Biblioteca Nazionale Centrale , II.1.7
ברכות נח ע"א - ברכות נח ע"ב


It is rather mina and goya, respectively. (See first line and last line.)


Sunday, September 23, 2012

Berachot 51a: Asparagus in the gemara and in Pliny the Elder

In the gemara, Berachot 51a:
תנו רבנן אספרגוס יפה ללב וטוב לעינים וכ"ש לבני מעים והרגיל בו יפה לכל גופו והמשתכר הימנו קשה לכל גופו מדקתני יפה ללב מכלל דבחמרא עסקינן וקתני וכל שכן לבני מעים והתניא ללע"ט יפה לרמ"ת קשה כי תניא ההיא במיושן כדתנן קונם יין שאני טועם שהיין קשה לבני מעים אמרו לו והלא מיושן יפה הוא לבני מעים ושתק אסור בחדש ומותר במיושן שמע מינה:
Or, in English:
Our Rabbis taught: Asparagus brew6  is good for the heart and good for the eyes, and, needless to say, for the bowels. If one uses it regularly it is good for the whole body, but if one gets drunk on it it is bad for the whole body. Since it is stated that it is good for the heart, we infer that we are dealing with a brew of wine. Yet it states that it is, needless to say, good for the bowels; but surely it has been taught: For La'AT7  it is good. for Ramat8  it is bad? — Our statement9  was made with reference to a brew of old wine,10  as we have learnt: If one takes a vow to abstain from wine because it is bad for the bowels and they say to him, Is not the old wine good for the bowels, and he says nothing, he is forbidden to drink new wine but permitted to drink old wine.11  This proves [that we are dealing with old wine].
To expand the roshei teivos:
  1.  L = leb (heart); 'A = 'ayin (eyes); T = tehol (milt).
  2.  R = rosh (head); M = me'ayim (bowels); T = tahtonioth (piles).
Asparagus is the name of a genus; it need not mean the specific asparagus we commonly eat. See the Koren Talmud for an image and description.

Can we support the gemara's deduction that wine is mixed in it, and that mixed with different ingredients, it has different effects? Let us look to Pliny the Elder's Natural History, volume 4.


Looking at Pliny, perhaps the divergent braytot are referring to different parts of the aspargus; the seed, the root, etc.

Friday, September 21, 2012

Berachot 51-52: Why say the Halacha is like Bet Hillel?

On Berachot 51b-52a:
Our Rabbis taught: The points of difference between Beth Shammai and Beth Hillel in relation to a meal are as follows: Beth Shammai say that the blessing is first said over the [sanctity of] the day and then over the wine, because it is on account of the day that the wine is used, and [moreover] the day has already become holy21  before the wine has been brought. Beth Hillel say that a blessing is said over the wine first and then over the day, because the wine provides the occasion for saying a benediction.22  Another explanation is that the blessing over wine is said regularly23  while the blessing of the day is said only at infrequent intervals, and that which comes regularly always has precedence over that which comes infrequently. The halachah is as laid down by Beth Hillel. 
That ends the brayata. Then, the gemara analyzes this brayta.
'And the halachah is as stated by Beth Hillel'. This is self-evident, for the Bath Kol24  went forth [and proclaimed so]!25  If you like I can reply that this statement was made before the Bath Kol [had issued forth], and if you like I can say that it was made after the Bath Kol and that it represents the view of R. Joshua, who said that we pay no attention to a Bath Kol.1
When the parallel Yerushalmi cites the brayta, the last statement that the halacha is like Bet Hillel is absent. But look to the Tosefta, and you will find it there. In Berachot 5:25:

ארבעה דברים שבין בית שמאי ובית הלל בסעודה בית שמאי אומרים מברך על היום ואחר כך מברך על היין שהיום גורם ליין שיבא וכבר קדש היום ועדיין לא בא ובית הלל אומרים מברך על היין ואח"כ מברך על היום שהיין גורם לקדושה שתאמר דבר אחר ברכת היין תדיר וברכת היום אינו תדיר תדיר ושאינו תדיר תדיר קודם והלכה כב"ה.
A major difference here is that the Tosefta leads with the statement that there are four points of difference between Bet Shammai and Bet Hillel. The statement, at the end of the lengthy discussion of point #1, is meant to apply comprehensively to all four. Because we might have an alternative tradition that we pasken like Bet Shammai in one of them.

Indeed, consider point #4, and what the gemara later on Berachot 52a states, regarding the dispute between Bet Shammai and Bet Hillel, where Bet Hillel say one washes first and Bet Shammai say one sweeps first:
R. Jose b. Hanina said in the name of R. Huna: In all this chapter the halachah is as stated by Beth Hillel, save in this point where it is as stated by Beth Shammai. R. Oshaia, however, reverses the teaching9  and in this point also the halachah follows Beth Hillel.
We typically assume "reverses the teaching" means that the positions of Bet Hillel and Bet Shamai are transposed. An alternative (albeit perhaps awkward) understanding is that he reverses the statement that the halacha is like Bet Shammai here. Rabbi Oshaya and Rabbi Chiya authored braytot, and the Tosefta.

The Tosefta, meanwhile, does not reverse the positions in this last case.

____________________

Two more points, in passing.

First, the character of the Tosefta here seems to be one of a proto-gemara. Recall that Rav is cited in Tosefta, and Rabbi Chiyya and Rabbi Oshaya, the compilers of Tosefta, bridged the Tanna and Amora period as well. So we see a statement that the halacha is like Bet Hillel; and other such statements of who the halacha is like. And we see alternate suggestions of Bet Hillel and Bet Shamai's reasoning.

The gemara, naturally, treats this proto-gemara like any other brayta. And therefore it analyzes why Bet Hillel would say a davar achar, to give an alternate explanation. Meanwhile, it was not necessarily Bet Hillel who says davar achar but the proto-gemara. And similarly, the gemara analyzes why the brayta would say halacha ke-X.

See also this, from Wikipedia on Tosefta:
The traditional view is that the Tosefta should be dated to a period concurrent with or shortly after the redaction of the Mishnah. This view pre-supposes that the Tosefta was produced in order to record variant material not included in the Mishnah.
Modern scholarship can be roughly divided into two camps. Some, such as Jacob N. Epsteintheorize that the Tosefta as we have it developed from a proto-Tosefta recension which formed much of the basis for later Amoraic debate. Others, such as Hanokh Albeck, theorize that the Tosefta is a later compendium of several baraitot collections which were in use during the Amoraic period.
More recent scholarship, such as that of Yaakov Elman, concludes that since the Tosefta, as we know it, must be dated linguistically as an example of Middle Hebrew 1, it was most likely compiled in early Amoraic times from oral transmission of baraitot.,[2] Professor Shamma Friedman, has found that the Tosefta draws on relatively early Tannaitic source material and that parts of the Tosefta predate the Mishnah.[3]
Second, in terms of the gemara on 52b that says:
Another explanation is, so that the meal should follow immediately the washing of the hands.
This does not have to feed into the three teikef sugyas. Tosefta doesn't utilize the term teikef:
[דבר אחר אין נטילת ידים אלא סמוך לסעודה]
(and indeed it seems that some sources don't have the statement). Yerushalmi (58a) as well does not utilize the term teikef:
מה טעמהון דב"ה לעולם אחורי הכוס טמאין דבר אחר אין נטילת ידים אלא סמוך לברכה. 

Berachot 51b: Sitting for betching

Reposted from this parshablog post.



So it says in the gemara, Berachot 51a, at the very end of the 7th perek of Berachot. And this is cited by the Rishonic poskim. See e.g. Rif, Rosh.

Yet it is not so clear to me, or else I would not be posting with my take on it.

(Note: Need it be said? Sigh. OK. Not halacha lemaaseh.)

The aforementioned gemara states:
א"ר אבהו ואמרי לה במתניתא תנא האוכל ומהלך מברך מעומד וכשהוא אוכל מעומד מברך מיושב וכשהוא מיסב ואוכל יושב ומברך והלכתא בכולהו יושב ומברך
Rabbi Abahu said, and some say it was taught in a brayta: If one eats while walking, he bentches while standing (still). And when he eats while standing, he bentches while sitting. And when he eats while reclining, he bentches while sitting.
And the halacha is that in all of them, he sits and bentches.
Tosafot on the daf says that this is a chumra, a stringency, they imposed by bentching because it is diOrayta, Biblical.

What are the parameters of this, though. If I am traveling somewhere, eating a sandwich, do I really have to stop in the middle of Manhattan, sit down, and bentch? What if I am hiking somewhere, or doing some lengthy traveling? Depends who you ask. If you look through some of the halachic literature, some say that the walking refers to walking about within your own home, such that for bentching you should sit down, but while traveling on the road, they won't impose this difficulty upon you, more than they do by keriat Shema, because he won't be able to focus because his journey is being delayed (see the Rosh). Others say that sitting on your own donkey while traveling is considered sitting, so those who say this obviously hold that this includes real travel.

What about reclining? Well, the most common case of reclining is during the seder night. How do we read the gemara here, in saying that the halacha in all these cases is to sit while bentching, and furthermore where it says that if one eats while reclining, one should sit and bentch. Is sitting more formal in terms of bentching, such that it is a better level than reclining, such that the gemara is requiring sitting? Or is sitting less formal than reclining in terms of bentching, such that the gemara is teaching a leniency that one merely needs to sit and does not need to recline? What should we do by the Pesach seder, when we eat while reclining? Is bentching like this problematic (assuming no exemption for the seder because of cherut supersedes)?

Rashi defines מיסב as on a bed. Divrei Chamudos on the Rosh cites the Tur that one should not recline either during bentching, because it is a derech gaavah. Thus, it would seem to be a problem according to this approach.

I would venture that it is no problem by our reclining during the seder, because we don't really recline. It is one think to really recline on a bed, with your legs up, on your left side. On ahessebet, or even on a recliner (a big, padded, reclining chair). That is really heseiba, and is the way of kings. Frankly, I wonder if the way that we currently recline for the seder, on a narrow chair, crowded at the table, almost entirely sitting up, with perhaps a pillow, and feeling less comfortable than if we were merely sitting straight up, should really be considered heseiba. (I prefer not using a pillow but rather turning my chair sideways and leaning on the back of the chair, but even that is not so comfortable.) I also wonder if by the seder, regular sitting would be more derech cherut than our pretend heseiba. At any rate, this was not what Rashi meant by reclining, and not what the Tur meant by reclining when he said that it was derech gaavah, so it should not be a problem even if one does take that approach in the gemara.

It might well be a problem if one settles in on an easy chair (a recliner) and then wishes tobentch.

And it certainly seems to be a problem if someone was walking about, and now wishes to bentch while just standing. (Though it seems that bedieved, of course it would be OK.)

All the aforementioned is typical stuff. Now it gets more interesting. Let us see that gemara again:
א"ר אבהו ואמרי לה במתניתא תנא האוכל ומהלך מברך מעומד וכשהוא אוכל מעומד מברך מיושב וכשהוא מיסב ואוכל יושב ומברך והלכתא בכולהו יושב ומברך
Rabbi Abahu said, and some say it was taught in a brayta: If one eats while walking, he bentches while standing (still). And when he eats while standing, he bentches while sitting. And when he eats while reclining, he bentches while sitting.
And the halacha is that in all of them, he sits and bentches.
Several questions and points:

1) What is the nature of this vehilcheta? Who says this anonymous conclusion? It is not Rabbi Abahu or the brayta. Rather, it is anonymous. And it seems to contradict the explicit source given above, adding extra restrictions. And it does not give a basis.

It might well be the redactor, Ravina or Rav Ashi. However, I wonder in general at anonymous statements in the gemara. There are, after all, setama digmaras, which are post-Ravina and Rav Ashi, while Ravina and Rav Ashi were sof horaah.

I wonder especially at these vehilchetas, with the gemara's conclusions. If I recall correctly, one the gemara contrasts and resolves on vehilcheta on another vehilcheta, and more foggily a case where we don't hold like a vehilcheta (though that might have been an Amora's statement of what the halacha was). But further, working through translating the Rif for the past good while, I start to get a feel for the style. And the Rif often, after citing the relevant gemara, statesvehilcheta, and gives his own conclusion. Which leads me to the theory that our gemara, pre-Rif, had some Savora doing a Rif-like job on it, in certain sugyot adding what he felt thehalachic conclusion should be. And if so, perhaps we might take issue with the specific conclusion.

2) We seem to be skipping a step here. Rabbi Abahu stated:
If one eats while walking, he bentches while standing (still).
And when he eats while standing, he bentches while sitting.
And when he eats while reclining, he bentches while sitting.
What about eating while sitting? Shouldn't it state:
And when he eats while sitting, he bentches while sitting.
or something like that? Why leap directly to reclining?

3) More to the point, this feels almost like a scribal error. Rabbi Abahu was an Amora from Eretz Yisrael, and we have the following gemara, in the same place in Yerushalmi, at the end of the seventh perek of Berachot, on Berachot 56b:
רבי בא בריה דר' חייא בר אבא אכל מהלך עומד ומברך. אכל עומד יושב ומברך. אכל יושב מיסב ומברך. אכל מיסב מתעטף ומברך. אם עשה כן הרי הוא כמלאכי השרת
מה טעמא (ישעיהו ו) בשתים יכסה פניו ובשתים יכסה רגליו
Even though Rabbi Ba is short for Rabbi Abba, he presumably is not the Rabbi Abahu of our gemara (for there is a famous Rabbi Abahu). Yet the statement, in the same location, is roughly parallel but with important differences:
If one eats while walking, he bentches while standing (still).
And when he eats while standing, he bentches while sitting.
And when he eats while sitting, he bentches while reclining.
And when he eats while reclining, he bentches while wrapped in a tallit.
It seems that each form of eating requires the next level of permanence. Comparing with our gemara, it seems that there are at least two differences:
a) The statement about eating while sitting is entirely missing.
b) Instead of eating while reclining requiring the extreme of being wrapped in a tallit suringbentching, all that is required is sitting while bentching.

It almost looks as if a scribal error is in play. That scribal error would be taking וכשהוא יושב ואוכל מיסב ומברך and swapping the reclining and the sitting, to arrive at וכשהוא מיסב ואוכל יושב ומברך.

A further point. Look at the forms:
When eating while walking -- מברך מעומד. (This should be pronounced mei-omed, BTW, notmeumad like you might expect.)
When eating while standing -- מברך מיושב. (mei-yosheiv)
When eating while reclining -- יושב ומברך.

But, if this is the same as the previous law, say מברך מיושב. Why say יושב ומברך?? Something seems off here. Perhaps because there is no easy form for eating while in heseiba. I would note, though, that this is precisely the formulation found in the Yerushalmi -- יושב ומברך. And the same formulation found in the vehilcheta.

4) Regardless, it really looks like we can dismiss the Tur's position that reclining is derech gaavahand as such sitting is optimal. Indeed, looking at the Yerushalmi, it is clear that reclining is a deeper form of permanence along the continuum, and of course would be good. As such, the statement in the gemara about sitting if you ate while reclining is that you merely need to sit (rather than reclining or, as the Yerushalmi says, wrap yourself in a tallit), and not that you arerequired to sit rather than recline.

This is an important kulla.

5) Indeed, I've wanted to do this wrapping in a tallit during the seder for several years now, since this is an instance of sitting while reclining (if only we were really reclining), and so we have opportunity to fulfill this Yerushalmi.

6) Perhaps we could suggest the following emendation to the gemara, or rather vector of development. This would be exceptionally "fanciful," with little concrete to back it up, but it would explain some of the irregularities:

The gemara's statement by Rabbi Abahu originally followed the style of the Yerushalmi in content. Thus, there was a statement of what one did when sitting while eating -- the result was than one reclined while bentching. And there was a statement of what one did when reclining when eating -- the result is that one wrapped in a tallit when bentching. Something like this:

א"ר אבהו ואמרי לה במתניתא תנא האוכל ומהלך מברך מעומד
וכשהוא אוכל מעומד מברך מיושב
וכשהוא אוכל מיושב מברך בהסיבה
וכשהוא אוכל בהסיבה מברך מעוטף
or something like that, perhaps even with the gemara's reversal of מיסב ומברך and עוטף ומברך.

However, the halacha for whatever reason is that one need not go to such extremes. (In the next point, I will discuss a plausible reason for this.) Sure, one who wraps himself is like one of the malachei haSharet, but it is not a requirement. Rather, while it is true that one should go one step deeper in permanence, that is only up to the level of sitting, but no more permanence/focus is needed.
Thus, והלכתא בכולהו יושב ומברך -- in the last three clauses, all we need is יושב ומברך.
Besides making that vehilcheta, someone fixed up the statement of Rabbi Abahu to match thehalacha, much as people "fixed up" the Rambam to accord with their local halacha, and how the Rif often "fixes up" statements by Amoraim to accord with the setama digemara's conclusion of what they meant.

How do we "fix" this up? Well, we can leave כשהוא אוכל מעומד מברך מיושב alone, because it is already correct. For reclining, copy the conclusion made in the vehilcheta, so it becomes יושב ומברך, instead of the original language we see of מברך מיושב. And sitting while eating can be eliminated entirely, since it is obvious and we are giving the span.

If so, the entire point of the vehilcheta is to give a kulla, not a chumra.

And if so, the vehilcheta is only going on the last three when it says בכולהו.

And if so, if you ate while walking, all you would need do is stand in place.

As I said, this is extremely fanciful, and I admit this. I have much less to back me up in this than in many other flights of fancy. Yet I think this potential should be spoken out.

7) Why does the vehilcheta say that we do not do what was mentioned by Rabbi Abahu, but rather one sits? Here, I am taking this as going on the last three cases - standing, sitting (left unmentioned) and reclining.

I would suggest that it is because bentching while wrapped in a tallit is excluded as a requirement, from two sources.

Firstly, we said earlier in the gemara:
Rabbi Zera cited Rabbi Abahu, and some say it was taught in a brayta: 10 things were said regarding a cup of blessing {of Birchat HaMazon}: It requires to be rinsed and washed, it must be undiluted and full, it requires crowning and wrapping, it must be taken up with both hands and placed in the right hand, it must be raised a handbreadth from the ground, he must fix his eyes on it, and he must send it round to the members of his household.
Note that this is the same Rabbi Abahu as we have in the end of the gemara, with the same alternation that perhaps it was a brayta. Thus, we would expect Rabbi Abahu to be consistent and require "wrapping" in a tallit. Indeed, it seems a contradiction that there he says that "it requires crowning and wrapping" while later all he requires is sitting by bentching.

However, Rabbi Yochanan says that we do not have all these ten obligations. Rather, we have four:
Rabbi Yochanan said: We only have four: rinsing, washing, undiluted and full.
Rinsing - is done on the outside.
Washing - is done on the inside.
Undiluted - until the blessing on the land {HaAretz}, and in the blessing on the land he puts into it water.
...
Full - For Rabbi Yochanan said: Anyone who blesses on a full cup of blessing {over grace after meals} is given inheritance without bounds.
And rishonim seem to agree that these four is to the exclusion of "crowning" and "wrapping."

The gemara continues by defining wrapping:
Wrapping - Rav Papa wrapped {himself in his robe} and sat and blessed.
Rav Ashi spread a kerchief over his head, and took it with both of his hands, for Rav Chanina bar Papa said: The verse states (in Tehillim 134:2):
Thus, wrapping is wrapping in a tallit. Taking away the wrapping component, all we have is sitting and blessing, which is what the vehilcheta says.

Further, Rav Ashi does not seem to have wrapped, but just spread the sudar, and he is batrai, so we would rule like him.

Therefore it is fair for the vehilcheta to conclude that we do not rule to require "wrapping," and so states this leniency in the vehilcheta. And just perhaps, Rabbi Abahu's statement was then emended as described in the previous point, in order to match this practice.

8) One interesting variant one sees in various sources citing the gemara is
והלכתא בכולהו יושב ומברך
becoming
והלכתא בכולהו יושב במקומו ומברך

For the reasons in (6), and also because it is shorter, I would expect that במקומו is not original. It also accords nicely with the diyuk of the Rosh. He has במקומו in the vehilcheta (but not earlier) and also says this means within his own house. Perhaps we can read this as his place at the table, rather than "where he is."