Friday, August 10, 2012

Berachot 9b: Kestrel of the sun

In the Mishna on Berachot 9b, there is mention of sunrise. Thus:
מתני' מאימתי קורין את שמע בשחרית משיכיר בין תכלת ללבן ר' אליעזר אומר בין תכלת לכרתי (וגומרה) עד הנץ החמה ר' יהושע אומר עד שלש שעות שכן דרך מלכים לעמוד בשלש שעות הקורא מכאן ואילך לא הפסיד כאדם הקורא בתורה:
MISHNAH. FROM WHAT TIME MAY ONE RECITE THE SHEMA IN THE MORNING? FROM THE TIME THAT ONE CAN DISTINGUISH BETWEEN BLUE AND WHITE. R. ELIEZER SAYS: BETWEEN BLUE AND GREEN. AND HE HAS TIME TO FINISH UNTIL SUNRISE. R. JOSHUA SAYS: UNTIL THE THIRD HOUR OF THE DAY, FOR SUCH IS THE CUSTOM OF KINGS, TO RISE AT THE THIRD HOUR. IF ONE RECITES THE SHEMA' LATER HE LOSES NOTHING, BEING LIKE ONE WHO READS IN THE TORAH.

This is commonly called netz hachama. However, here is an image of a netz hachama.
Kestrel of the sun, netz hachama

(Netz is a hawk, a kestrel, a harrier, etc.; you get the idea.)

And this is an image of the hanetz hachama:
Sunrise, hanetz hachama
Indeed, the ha prefix of hanetz hachama is not the heh of the definite article. See for comparison Shir HaShirim 7:13:

יג  נַשְׁכִּימָה, לַכְּרָמִים--נִרְאֶה אִם-פָּרְחָה הַגֶּפֶן פִּתַּח הַסְּמָדַר, הֵנֵצוּ הָרִמּוֹנִים; שָׁם אֶתֵּן אֶת-דֹּדַי, לָךְ.13 Let us get up early to the vineyards; let us see whether the vine hath budded, whether the vine-blossom be opened, and the pomegranates be in flower; there will I give thee my love.


See also this Wikipedia article.

6 comments:

  1. Meir says
    This is quite a difficult gemoro.
    The mishna mentions 2 times the gemoro 3.
    Which coincide with each other.
    There are 3 times.
    1 The start time of shma
    2 The 'best' time
    3 And the time of shmone esrai.
    The rambam who mentions that the SUN COMES UP after One hour or 6,2 or 10 minute depending on the girsay,
    which may have no halachic significance but was a time well known to base the others on.

    So if 6.00 is daybreak. 7.12 is ACTUAL sunrise
    when exactly are all the other times mentioned.

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  2. if i understand your question correctly, the Rosh addresses all of this. See my Rosh Yomi blog here for details.

    kol tuv,
    josh

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  3. Meir says
    Thank you for allowing my comments.
    Not exactly all of it only the first part. Which coincide with each other.
    If I am not mistaken he doesnt bring the rambam which is the real difficulty.
    I may add your old print of the rosh and rif isnt very good. The new one in oz v'hodor is much better.

    I really dont want to write long posts. I try to be as short as possible. I intend them to be more like the previous one I wrote on the previous blatt for 12a.
    My way of learning is not so much to find the answers, although I usually do, they dont really matter so much and I dont intend to supply them. But to find all the possibilities that the gemoro COULD be talking about and put them in an orderly form.
    It would really mean going to a shiur with a list of all the possibilities and asking the magid shiur for the answers.
    After a time one can train to do it oneself.
    It has taken me some time to find this new blog of yours. Perhaps you should tell more people about it on hirhurim or other sites.
    Many people have started learning daf yomi and I am sure they would be interested.

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  4. is Oz veHadar online? I'm using this Nehardea version because it is on HebrewBooks. i don't see a problem with the Rif and Rosh. Did you follow the link to the PDF? Rosh starts on page 144 there.

    kol tuv,
    josh

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  5. Meir says
    I will put the answer as I understand them just for today as short as possible.
    The pri megodim 1,2=6:06 3 =6:12 the rambams hour finishes 7:12 actual sunrise.

    Everyone else ie MB 3=7:12 actual sunrise as kept today.

    1 'misheyakir' time not mentioned, 2 7:06 if rambam girsa is 6 minutes. Otherwise exact time not mentioned just called a short time.

    If rambam girsa one hour then from 3, finishes 8:12 machtsis hashekel
    Or from 2 bais yosef a bit earlier.

    Gut shabbos.

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  6. Technically the first picture is הנץ והחמה

    ReplyDelete